Sustainability Disclosure Is Key To Drive Business Success

Sherry Madera, CEO of CDP, champions corporate disclosures of climate targets as a key step toward achieving global net-zero goals. At London Climate Action Week, we invited Sherry to join our CEO Nick Studer for a conversation on expanding investment in sustainable initiatives and setting ambitious climate targets.

In this interview, they reflect on the recently published “Corporate Health Check,” explore the industry’s impact on nature, and highlight the need for more effective measurement of corporate sustainability efforts to support better environmental decision-making.

Nick Studer

Hi. I'm Nick Studer, CEO of Oliver Wyman. I'm here in Oliver Wyman London with Sherry Madera, the CEO of CDP. Sherry, thank you very much indeed for joining me here.

Sherry Madera

Nick, thanks so much for having us. And thanks so much to Oliver Wyman for being a great partner of CDP.

Nick

Our pleasure. It's an important partnership for us. Last time we were together, we were in Davos, in slightly different surroundings. I think we were sort of on the hoof, talking about our latest work together, which actually got a great play in Davos. And I think you really presented beautifully in the Congress Center. What's happened since then?

Sherry

Well, we are in a changed world. And when we were together in Davos and we launched our first annual “Corporate Health Check” report, that was before there was an administration change in the US, if we remember back. It was also snowing outside. And, you know, the footwear was not quite as fun as it is today and much more practical.

And I think that everybody was wondering what was going to happen next. So, I think that landing our report at that time was a really good point to say, actually, corporates have agency when we're thinking about what is a sustainable business and what is a sustainable future. So I think that that has actually drawn a lot more interest and questions over the course of the last six months for CDP, hopefully also for your clients at Oliver Wyman saying, all right, well, this data is indicating that yes, it's grim reading when you talk about the planetary boundaries and how it is that the world is breaching them. But corporates have a way of actually starting to think about how it is that they can do better, do differently, and actually secure an economic future for everyone.

Nick

Yeah. And certainly, in my conversations with CEOs and in our work, I've not seen any diminishing focus, frankly, on the need to be responsible to society for the carbon and increasingly, the nature impacts that corporations are having. I think people are treading carefully. I think it is vital, and we've both said this over time. The transition is done in a sensible fashion.

We call it a commercially sensible fashion to get the balance right. I think one of the stats that the Oliver Wyman team pulled out working with your team was: over the last decade, your A-rated companies have a 6% higher stock market return than the indices. So, you can navigate a commercially sensible transition.
But when it comes to disclosure, when it comes to setting targets, when it comes to holding your own management to account and all those various aspects, the “Corporate Health Check”, in certainly my conversations across, clients are finding it very helpful.

Sherry

Absolutely. And I think it's also grounding corporates in what some of the levers are that, together, we have really surfaced to say: what are the consistent things that corporates are doing in order to be leaders in terms of climate and sustainability? And those were really clear, thinking about linking executive pay to those sustainability targets, having an internal carbon price, and sometimes that's a little controversial. But certainly it's something for us to think about how it is that corporates play a role there.

Also thinking about how it is that corporates engage, not just with themselves, but with their whole supply chain, and thinking about how that value chain is really impacting, and finally thinking about transition plans instead of just targets.

I think that's something that is really consistent, I'm hearing a lot here this week in London and consistently over the last six months. Targets simply are not enough. Of course, you have to have a baseline, and you have to have a target. That's part of how you actually measure and manage. However, how you're getting from point A to point B is deeply important to investors, buyers, procurement offices, to talent, to your own business. So all of these things actually sing together.

Nick

I think that's absolutely right. Balance, I think, is a very important word. It was interesting looking in, given we are here for London Climate Week, looking at the data of the “Corporate Health Check” for UK companies versus the EU versus the rest of the world. And perhaps unsurprisingly, given the position of the UK government over the years, UK corporates actually come out very well across each of the main families of categories of the health check. Whether it be disclosure, whether it be, linking executive remuneration to progress, which I think is a decent start.

I think at this point there’s a lot more to do. I think we only see something like 15% of companies really being on that, top category across the board.

Sherry

You're right. Let's take a moment to give the UK the credit it's due, as we're sitting here in this jurisdiction. We talked about targets and transition plans. And in terms of targets, 33% of the world's companies have set targets now, which is encouraging, but that's in comparison to the EU being ahead of that, so about 56% of set targets. And here in the UK, it's 62% of companies that set targets. And then, of course, it's the next question. So what? Are they on track? Are they on target in terms of being able to hit those targets? And globally, 35% according to the data, are on track to hit their own targets, which is encouraging, and yet, there's lots of room to manoeuvre.

Then we start looking at the other two jurisdictions, Europe is about 46% and the UK comes in at 50%. So, they're in a clear 15% ahead of the pack when it comes to thinking about how it is that they're performing against their own targets. So that's encouraging. It's a good place to be.

Nick

Glass is literally half full.

Sherry

But you're right, actually. What contributes to that? You know, what makes the UK 50% versus the global 35%?And we have to have those discussions about thinking about how policy has been either clear or directional. How does government and regulation come into play earlier?

And then we're seeing and reaping the rewards for all of that. And, of course, it is still a time of uncertainty and turbulence. But even this week, we're seeing the consultation for the UK industrial policy, and continuing to consider how green sustainable business is going to drive the future. I think is very encouraging.

Nick

I think, certainly speaking from the UK perspective, it hasn't been non-controversial for the last couple of years. About how fast should the government push, what does that mean for industry? But at the same time, the opportunities for investments in green technology in the UK are aiming to be a leader. I think that's going to be part of the industrial strategy, and has been for a little while. What advice do you have, and what conversations are you having around getting that balance right?

Sherry

I think that you cannot separate out any longer the discussion about sustainability and net-zero targets. It has to be a whole economic approach. So, thinking about how it is that we can give the confidence to all of the players that are making decisions across the economy, be governments, regulators, corporates, cities, states, regions here in the UK, over 96% of the cities and states report into CDP.

So they're really measuring and managing. All of them have targets, and most of them have transition plans. Well, that's actually only so much in their own gift to be able to achieve. When we're talking about place-based targets, it has to be about how that economy shows up in that region. So having that collaborative understanding of where does the data say, how is it you can have that discussion so that you're retaining jobs and growth and retaining profitability while also protecting the future in terms of inputs for those businesses, the planet, and obviously that the societal benefits that come from living here and doing good work.

Nick:

That local government reporting was new news to me as I was reading up in advance of this discussion. And that sounds like good news.

So, a question, over the weekend, I was outside London, actually by my parents’ house, and my 16-year-old, sitting in the back of the car said, “There's a sticker on that house that says, ‘No To Net Zero.’ How can that be?” I tried to explain to him some of the balances that we've been talking about here. What would you say to that household?

Sherry

Well, I would say, how are they understanding and defining net zero? I think this is one of the real tripwires in thinking about how we build a sustainable economy going forward. What is that phrase “net zero”? It's been around for a long while, but is it zero or is it net zero? And who is above and who is below that line?

You know, it's very confusing to the man, woman, and child on the street. But it's also confusing for business leaders as well. So, I think that it's about understanding how we can actually make sure that the nomenclature and the discussion are changing. And right now, we're seeing that across the board at CDP. So, when we talk about sustainability, climate, environment, actually what we're really trying to embed that in is how is it that you can create opportunities, where are your risks?

What are the real physical risks that are coming down to your business, to your environment, to your family? And if we can start making sure that we understand that, then actually this nomenclature, about no net zero, that actually becomes, ah, I understand why we're doing this. How is it that each player in the economy can make good choices based on good data?

And that, I think, is where we should focus, as opposed to playing some of the games of the past using words that perhaps are less resonant.

Nick

I very much agree with that. I think that policy makers were making plans five to 10 years ago with the hope that they’d would be beyond the sort of measurable feelings of individuals. But we're now well within the zone where action has to be taken. I mean, as you said, in the UK, 50% of companies are on target, but the glass-half-empty view is that there are huge amounts of work still to do.

I'm going to extend into the other aspects of nature, even fewer, I think, who are thinking hard about things like water and biodiversity, which ultimately are intrinsically linked to climate. So yeah, probably still quite a lot more to do.

Sherry

It is. But I think that if we can ground this in what businesses, economies, and humans are talking about, then I think we have a bigger and better chance to start thinking about how it is that we can all act productively. I’ll give you an example. You really can't avoid talking about AI these days, and that's exciting.
Some people find it scary, it's moving quite quickly, etc., but what is an absolute certainty is that we need more data centres, and we need more capacity in order to be able to drive AI. That's coming very fast and furious. Is it on a collision course with the climate? Because actually, if you're talking about more data centers, you need more power. Where's that power coming from? How is it that we're going to be able to meet those needs? We all talk about renewables, and it's encouraging that renewables prices are coming down and its uptake is going up. Is it fast enough. And then it layers on. I know a topic very close to your heart and mine as well, which is how it plays into nature.

And with data centers water is an absolutely critical input to making it go. It's a cooling factor. There's the ability to make it a closed system. But there are even factors to consider there. And there are places in the world that are now saying no more data centers because we don't have the power capacity and we don't have the water capacity. That's very interesting because water then doesn't become an ephemeral natural. We should protect nature. It becomes an economic input. And that is actually a conversation I think we should be leaning into. Because there's nothing woke about that. It comes down to how we drive jobs and economic growth while thinking about a better, profitable, and more sustainable future.

And if AI is going to be part of it, which, you know, I believe that, you know, we certainly need to embrace that. It's moving really quickly, and there's a lot of great things that can come from it. But we need to make sure that that collision course isn't happening and that we think about that.

Nick

I agree with that totally. I mean, if you see how that debate has evolved, the projection of energy usage and electricity usage, data science is obviously not factored in. And the AI world was not factoring projections that we made barely a few years ago. And so, when that trend started to happen, I think a lot of the initial reaction was a net negative for the climate.

This is going to be terrible. But actually, the flow of serious, high-investing globally responsible corporations into that space, I think, if anything, creates the opportunity to take a step forward on innovation, which would not have occurred otherwise. And again, in our interactions, we're seeing many of those players not blowing with the slightly more political winds of whether something is in favor or not, but actually they are charting out their responsibility over the next five, 10, 15, 20 years.

And companies are starting to realize that they have to invest, whether it's sequestration or whatever technological advances it is that are going to help them manage the lifetime emissions of their data centers, just as one example. So, as we're going into climate week, it's a chance to take stock, as these moments come around every few months. What are you hoping for at Climate Week? And looking ahead, over the next couple of years, what progress would you like to see on the carbon journey?

Sherry

Well, I do want to make it the carbon and nature journey. So, at CDP, we've been using the phrase “Earth-Positive”, pulling together both climate and nature because they're inextricably linked. And I think that as we're thinking about how we protect nature, we can draw from some of the benefits of understanding how we've been working on climate and probably some of the things that we didn't do so well with climate.

So, let's pull that together so that it lands really well. London Climate Action Week is right in the middle of two COPs. So, we're coming from Azerbaijan and then going to Belem in Brazil. And I think it's really good timing for the world to be able to gather in a very international city.

I live here, you live here, and there are always those international angles happening. I think I have seen that even just in the last couple of days. It's international delegations that are coming and sharing what climate and nature protection means for their region, for their economies, for their part of the ecosystem.
So, I think that's really encouraging. I do think it's going to be a hard trip to Belem.

Nick

Yeah.

Sherry

You know, there is a lot of expectation. I felt that at COP 29, and I know we were both there and making sure that we were moving things forward, but it was only a fraction of what I think that Brazil is going to be in terms of footprint, ambition and announcements. So, there's a lot of work to do between now and then.

And my biggest concern is that, actually, often, we talk in the echo-chamber. We're speaking to others who can reinforce, yes, we know that nature makes a big difference, we know that water is an economic input, we know that climate is not on track for 1.5 degrees of warming.

However, there's a whole group of those that are emitters out there that are looking at growth, looking at how it is that they build their prosperity. That may not be factoring in, perhaps making better and different decisions than what corporations have made in the past. I'd really hope that between now and Belem, we crowd more of that in, so that we can see some significant change.

Nick

Excellent. Any last thoughts for our viewers before we pile out to London Climate Action Week?

Sherry

I think it's just that this is a business imperative. You know, I'm speaking to you as the leader of Oliver Wyman. You know this because you speak to your clients every day. We know this at CDP, because two thirds of the world's market capitalization report to us, and they are not backing off on their targets.
In fact, they're leaning in and thinking, how is it that they can measure more so that they can manage more? Not because they want to primarily save the planet, but they want to make sure that they have a profitable business that actually is sustainable, not just this year, but in five years, in ten years. And what's happening in terms of climate change, in terms of nature loss, is impacting their business.

And that is really solid business thinking. And that, I think, is what we need to keep talking about.

Nick

And I think those are excellent words for sure. And that's certainly what we see both in our client base and within Oliver Wyman and Marsh McLennan’s internal operations. Thank you very much indeed for joining me.

Sherry

Thank you. Let's do this in Belem.

This transcript was edited for clarity
 

Sherry Madera, CEO of CDP, champions corporate disclosures of climate targets as a key step toward achieving global net-zero goals. At London Climate Action Week, we invited Sherry to join our CEO Nick Studer for a conversation on expanding investment in sustainable initiatives and setting ambitious climate targets.

In this interview, they reflect on the recently published “Corporate Health Check,” explore the industry’s impact on nature, and highlight the need for more effective measurement of corporate sustainability efforts to support better environmental decision-making.

Nick Studer

Hi. I'm Nick Studer, CEO of Oliver Wyman. I'm here in Oliver Wyman London with Sherry Madera, the CEO of CDP. Sherry, thank you very much indeed for joining me here.

Sherry Madera

Nick, thanks so much for having us. And thanks so much to Oliver Wyman for being a great partner of CDP.

Nick

Our pleasure. It's an important partnership for us. Last time we were together, we were in Davos, in slightly different surroundings. I think we were sort of on the hoof, talking about our latest work together, which actually got a great play in Davos. And I think you really presented beautifully in the Congress Center. What's happened since then?

Sherry

Well, we are in a changed world. And when we were together in Davos and we launched our first annual “Corporate Health Check” report, that was before there was an administration change in the US, if we remember back. It was also snowing outside. And, you know, the footwear was not quite as fun as it is today and much more practical.

And I think that everybody was wondering what was going to happen next. So, I think that landing our report at that time was a really good point to say, actually, corporates have agency when we're thinking about what is a sustainable business and what is a sustainable future. So I think that that has actually drawn a lot more interest and questions over the course of the last six months for CDP, hopefully also for your clients at Oliver Wyman saying, all right, well, this data is indicating that yes, it's grim reading when you talk about the planetary boundaries and how it is that the world is breaching them. But corporates have a way of actually starting to think about how it is that they can do better, do differently, and actually secure an economic future for everyone.

Nick

Yeah. And certainly, in my conversations with CEOs and in our work, I've not seen any diminishing focus, frankly, on the need to be responsible to society for the carbon and increasingly, the nature impacts that corporations are having. I think people are treading carefully. I think it is vital, and we've both said this over time. The transition is done in a sensible fashion.

We call it a commercially sensible fashion to get the balance right. I think one of the stats that the Oliver Wyman team pulled out working with your team was: over the last decade, your A-rated companies have a 6% higher stock market return than the indices. So, you can navigate a commercially sensible transition.
But when it comes to disclosure, when it comes to setting targets, when it comes to holding your own management to account and all those various aspects, the “Corporate Health Check”, in certainly my conversations across, clients are finding it very helpful.

Sherry

Absolutely. And I think it's also grounding corporates in what some of the levers are that, together, we have really surfaced to say: what are the consistent things that corporates are doing in order to be leaders in terms of climate and sustainability? And those were really clear, thinking about linking executive pay to those sustainability targets, having an internal carbon price, and sometimes that's a little controversial. But certainly it's something for us to think about how it is that corporates play a role there.

Also thinking about how it is that corporates engage, not just with themselves, but with their whole supply chain, and thinking about how that value chain is really impacting, and finally thinking about transition plans instead of just targets.

I think that's something that is really consistent, I'm hearing a lot here this week in London and consistently over the last six months. Targets simply are not enough. Of course, you have to have a baseline, and you have to have a target. That's part of how you actually measure and manage. However, how you're getting from point A to point B is deeply important to investors, buyers, procurement offices, to talent, to your own business. So all of these things actually sing together.

Nick

I think that's absolutely right. Balance, I think, is a very important word. It was interesting looking in, given we are here for London Climate Week, looking at the data of the “Corporate Health Check” for UK companies versus the EU versus the rest of the world. And perhaps unsurprisingly, given the position of the UK government over the years, UK corporates actually come out very well across each of the main families of categories of the health check. Whether it be disclosure, whether it be, linking executive remuneration to progress, which I think is a decent start.

I think at this point there’s a lot more to do. I think we only see something like 15% of companies really being on that, top category across the board.

Sherry

You're right. Let's take a moment to give the UK the credit it's due, as we're sitting here in this jurisdiction. We talked about targets and transition plans. And in terms of targets, 33% of the world's companies have set targets now, which is encouraging, but that's in comparison to the EU being ahead of that, so about 56% of set targets. And here in the UK, it's 62% of companies that set targets. And then, of course, it's the next question. So what? Are they on track? Are they on target in terms of being able to hit those targets? And globally, 35% according to the data, are on track to hit their own targets, which is encouraging, and yet, there's lots of room to manoeuvre.

Then we start looking at the other two jurisdictions, Europe is about 46% and the UK comes in at 50%. So, they're in a clear 15% ahead of the pack when it comes to thinking about how it is that they're performing against their own targets. So that's encouraging. It's a good place to be.

Nick

Glass is literally half full.

Sherry

But you're right, actually. What contributes to that? You know, what makes the UK 50% versus the global 35%?And we have to have those discussions about thinking about how policy has been either clear or directional. How does government and regulation come into play earlier?

And then we're seeing and reaping the rewards for all of that. And, of course, it is still a time of uncertainty and turbulence. But even this week, we're seeing the consultation for the UK industrial policy, and continuing to consider how green sustainable business is going to drive the future. I think is very encouraging.

Nick

I think, certainly speaking from the UK perspective, it hasn't been non-controversial for the last couple of years. About how fast should the government push, what does that mean for industry? But at the same time, the opportunities for investments in green technology in the UK are aiming to be a leader. I think that's going to be part of the industrial strategy, and has been for a little while. What advice do you have, and what conversations are you having around getting that balance right?

Sherry

I think that you cannot separate out any longer the discussion about sustainability and net-zero targets. It has to be a whole economic approach. So, thinking about how it is that we can give the confidence to all of the players that are making decisions across the economy, be governments, regulators, corporates, cities, states, regions here in the UK, over 96% of the cities and states report into CDP.

So they're really measuring and managing. All of them have targets, and most of them have transition plans. Well, that's actually only so much in their own gift to be able to achieve. When we're talking about place-based targets, it has to be about how that economy shows up in that region. So having that collaborative understanding of where does the data say, how is it you can have that discussion so that you're retaining jobs and growth and retaining profitability while also protecting the future in terms of inputs for those businesses, the planet, and obviously that the societal benefits that come from living here and doing good work.

Nick:

That local government reporting was new news to me as I was reading up in advance of this discussion. And that sounds like good news.

So, a question, over the weekend, I was outside London, actually by my parents’ house, and my 16-year-old, sitting in the back of the car said, “There's a sticker on that house that says, ‘No To Net Zero.’ How can that be?” I tried to explain to him some of the balances that we've been talking about here. What would you say to that household?

Sherry

Well, I would say, how are they understanding and defining net zero? I think this is one of the real tripwires in thinking about how we build a sustainable economy going forward. What is that phrase “net zero”? It's been around for a long while, but is it zero or is it net zero? And who is above and who is below that line?

You know, it's very confusing to the man, woman, and child on the street. But it's also confusing for business leaders as well. So, I think that it's about understanding how we can actually make sure that the nomenclature and the discussion are changing. And right now, we're seeing that across the board at CDP. So, when we talk about sustainability, climate, environment, actually what we're really trying to embed that in is how is it that you can create opportunities, where are your risks?

What are the real physical risks that are coming down to your business, to your environment, to your family? And if we can start making sure that we understand that, then actually this nomenclature, about no net zero, that actually becomes, ah, I understand why we're doing this. How is it that each player in the economy can make good choices based on good data?

And that, I think, is where we should focus, as opposed to playing some of the games of the past using words that perhaps are less resonant.

Nick

I very much agree with that. I think that policy makers were making plans five to 10 years ago with the hope that they’d would be beyond the sort of measurable feelings of individuals. But we're now well within the zone where action has to be taken. I mean, as you said, in the UK, 50% of companies are on target, but the glass-half-empty view is that there are huge amounts of work still to do.

I'm going to extend into the other aspects of nature, even fewer, I think, who are thinking hard about things like water and biodiversity, which ultimately are intrinsically linked to climate. So yeah, probably still quite a lot more to do.

Sherry

It is. But I think that if we can ground this in what businesses, economies, and humans are talking about, then I think we have a bigger and better chance to start thinking about how it is that we can all act productively. I’ll give you an example. You really can't avoid talking about AI these days, and that's exciting.
Some people find it scary, it's moving quite quickly, etc., but what is an absolute certainty is that we need more data centres, and we need more capacity in order to be able to drive AI. That's coming very fast and furious. Is it on a collision course with the climate? Because actually, if you're talking about more data centers, you need more power. Where's that power coming from? How is it that we're going to be able to meet those needs? We all talk about renewables, and it's encouraging that renewables prices are coming down and its uptake is going up. Is it fast enough. And then it layers on. I know a topic very close to your heart and mine as well, which is how it plays into nature.

And with data centers water is an absolutely critical input to making it go. It's a cooling factor. There's the ability to make it a closed system. But there are even factors to consider there. And there are places in the world that are now saying no more data centers because we don't have the power capacity and we don't have the water capacity. That's very interesting because water then doesn't become an ephemeral natural. We should protect nature. It becomes an economic input. And that is actually a conversation I think we should be leaning into. Because there's nothing woke about that. It comes down to how we drive jobs and economic growth while thinking about a better, profitable, and more sustainable future.

And if AI is going to be part of it, which, you know, I believe that, you know, we certainly need to embrace that. It's moving really quickly, and there's a lot of great things that can come from it. But we need to make sure that that collision course isn't happening and that we think about that.

Nick

I agree with that totally. I mean, if you see how that debate has evolved, the projection of energy usage and electricity usage, data science is obviously not factored in. And the AI world was not factoring projections that we made barely a few years ago. And so, when that trend started to happen, I think a lot of the initial reaction was a net negative for the climate.

This is going to be terrible. But actually, the flow of serious, high-investing globally responsible corporations into that space, I think, if anything, creates the opportunity to take a step forward on innovation, which would not have occurred otherwise. And again, in our interactions, we're seeing many of those players not blowing with the slightly more political winds of whether something is in favor or not, but actually they are charting out their responsibility over the next five, 10, 15, 20 years.

And companies are starting to realize that they have to invest, whether it's sequestration or whatever technological advances it is that are going to help them manage the lifetime emissions of their data centers, just as one example. So, as we're going into climate week, it's a chance to take stock, as these moments come around every few months. What are you hoping for at Climate Week? And looking ahead, over the next couple of years, what progress would you like to see on the carbon journey?

Sherry

Well, I do want to make it the carbon and nature journey. So, at CDP, we've been using the phrase “Earth-Positive”, pulling together both climate and nature because they're inextricably linked. And I think that as we're thinking about how we protect nature, we can draw from some of the benefits of understanding how we've been working on climate and probably some of the things that we didn't do so well with climate.

So, let's pull that together so that it lands really well. London Climate Action Week is right in the middle of two COPs. So, we're coming from Azerbaijan and then going to Belem in Brazil. And I think it's really good timing for the world to be able to gather in a very international city.

I live here, you live here, and there are always those international angles happening. I think I have seen that even just in the last couple of days. It's international delegations that are coming and sharing what climate and nature protection means for their region, for their economies, for their part of the ecosystem.
So, I think that's really encouraging. I do think it's going to be a hard trip to Belem.

Nick

Yeah.

Sherry

You know, there is a lot of expectation. I felt that at COP 29, and I know we were both there and making sure that we were moving things forward, but it was only a fraction of what I think that Brazil is going to be in terms of footprint, ambition and announcements. So, there's a lot of work to do between now and then.

And my biggest concern is that, actually, often, we talk in the echo-chamber. We're speaking to others who can reinforce, yes, we know that nature makes a big difference, we know that water is an economic input, we know that climate is not on track for 1.5 degrees of warming.

However, there's a whole group of those that are emitters out there that are looking at growth, looking at how it is that they build their prosperity. That may not be factoring in, perhaps making better and different decisions than what corporations have made in the past. I'd really hope that between now and Belem, we crowd more of that in, so that we can see some significant change.

Nick

Excellent. Any last thoughts for our viewers before we pile out to London Climate Action Week?

Sherry

I think it's just that this is a business imperative. You know, I'm speaking to you as the leader of Oliver Wyman. You know this because you speak to your clients every day. We know this at CDP, because two thirds of the world's market capitalization report to us, and they are not backing off on their targets.
In fact, they're leaning in and thinking, how is it that they can measure more so that they can manage more? Not because they want to primarily save the planet, but they want to make sure that they have a profitable business that actually is sustainable, not just this year, but in five years, in ten years. And what's happening in terms of climate change, in terms of nature loss, is impacting their business.

And that is really solid business thinking. And that, I think, is what we need to keep talking about.

Nick

And I think those are excellent words for sure. And that's certainly what we see both in our client base and within Oliver Wyman and Marsh McLennan’s internal operations. Thank you very much indeed for joining me.

Sherry

Thank you. Let's do this in Belem.

This transcript was edited for clarity